Riding the data tsunami
Podcast transcription - 17th July
Alan Cowley: Welcome to the Invested Investor. I'm sat opposite Iris Barcia this week. Iris is an experienced telecommunications professional who transitioned to the start-up world with Keima. She's the current chief operating officer at Keima, having previously worked in new product development. Keima has had its ups and downs but is now successfully growing and has recently added its third global office. So, you've centred around the telecommunications industry for most of your career. What directed you down this career path?
Iris Barcia: Thank you very much for the introduction. I think what drove me, I've always liked technology. So, I knew the things I didn't want to do when I was growing up, and at the end when I had to decide if I wanted to go to university, what I wanted to study. And I'm quite glad it was telecommunications, because it's such an exciting field.
And at the beginning I don't think I understood it that well. I think it took me some time to realise how exciting it is, that it changes so quickly. That there is always something new that you can learn. And that is what has kind of kept me I think in telecommunications. And now also I see that telecoms and many things actually are getting together, like the relationship between how we behave and the devices and the technology that we have available, and how those things are coming together and bringing out new services, bringing out even consumer products sometimes. And I think it's fascinating, so never get bored of it.
Alan Cowley: Did you have a techy upbringing? Were your parents in technology?
Iris Barcia: Well, I think my first techy failure was that I had a ... is it called a clockwork toy? One of these. So I had one of those, and I was desperate to know how it was working. So I asked my parents, "Can I open it?" And they said, "Yeah, yeah, you can open it." And then I could never put it together. I try and I try and I try, but obviously I didn't understand that once you remove the spring from the place-
Alan Cowley: And how old were you at this point?
Iris Barcia: I don't know. I think maybe I was six, seven years old.
Alan Cowley: Wow.
Iris Barcia: And then my parents never allowed me to open any other thing after that. But yeah, my dad was into computers. He was a radiocommunications engineer in ships, so I remember going into the R-comms cabinet in the ships and ... And yeah, don't know. It's been always been very .. It has always ... don't know, something that has interested me, and probably that definitely have influenced me. And also I love Star Trek.
Alan Cowley: Star Trek?
Iris Barcia: Yes. I remember when I'm in my teenage years, I loved the series, and liked the original ones. And I used to dream about this kind of hologram experience, and teletransportation.
Alan Cowley: We'll find out in a few minutes that Keima does the teleportation.
Iris Barcia: We are trying ... No. Unfortunately not. Not yet. But technology always fascinated me, so I think that's it, basically.
Alan Cowley: Yeah. Okay, so you did telecommunications at university. What was your first job out of university then?
Iris Barcia: Well, I started working when I was a student at university. My first paid activity was working for the university in their computer labs, and we were fixing computers. I had never opened a computer before, and I had plenty of computers there to tinker with. That was the first light engagement, so lovely. I was just ... don't know. Working with colleagues, and really fun things.
Then I did get the opportunity to join Telefonica, so I was still finishing university, and because I was preparing my dissertation for the Master’s degree, I asked them if I could do it ... but then I thought well, it would just make sense ... it's the times that we are deploying 3G, everything is new, and then they say yes. And it was fantastic. I got the chance to suddenly go deeper into mobile communications. I got the chance to visit a base station, which was an amazing experience because suddenly, from my simulated world, I went into looking at the physical ... the boards and the ... I could see the lights coming out as the calls were going through, so that's really ... don't know.
I think it was a tipping point for me, and I thought I'd really like this. And I also got the chance to go around with ... There was measuring equipment. And I put an antenna, two antennas actually, GPS and an antenna receiver at the top of my car, and I just drove around my city. And yeah, people were looking and I was just like, there enjoying myself. I'm measuring these new antennae that we've just deployed, and really, really exciting times.
That's defined quite a lot of what I ended up doing after, so it was a really good time. I learned loads there.
Alan Cowley: What did you learn from working in a large corporate then?
Iris Barcia: Well, I suppose at the time, I didn't realise ... For example, I did have a female boss. And I was very young, and I didn't realise how significant that was, how unique she was, basically. And I think within the corporate world, it's still difficult or unusual to find females. I think even the start-up or smaller company will ... Sometimes it seems to be more flexible, and if you're a female and you want to do it, maybe, don't know, you can be there, but in the corporate world, I think if we compare numbers, there was a massive difference, and even more at the time.
Then yeah, structures, processes ... Sometimes things are just slow, so those are the negative sides, but then I think the group at least that I was a part of, we had a great manager, and he made a massive difference. I think he managed to organise events where we could come up together and the meetings weren't boring.
Well, no, we just need to review KPIs and things like that, and I think that work out quite well. And then I think with the right approach, the possibilities are a bit easier. Some things are easier to do from a corporate world than from the small company.
I think my learnings from the time, it's just that it's so different.
Alan Cowley: Maybe subconsciously, you've used what you learned in the corporate.
Iris Barcia: Oh yeah, like obviously we do loads of things with big companies and comparing our size with the companies that we work with, our clients, there is such an imbalance. But I do understand sometimes what is going on, so I kind of can put myself in the position of the person I have in front of me. I'm thinking well yeah, so they will find this issue. This will be the limitation. Still, sometimes I've got many surprises about it anyway. Even if I think I can understand it, sometimes it's ... There are always surprises, but yeah, it was I think mainly that, so the experience that I gain at the time.
Then you have access to resources from the corporate world. You've got access to resources that are very difficult when you are in the small company. Don't know, some training, access to information: I think that's massive. You are in the corporate world, you are from a big company, and you just throw up the name; so many doors open. If you are in a small company, well, you have to knock many times and keep knocking.
Alan Cowley: After corporate life, you decided to do an MBA.
Iris Barcia: Yeah.
Alan Cowley: Let's just have a quick chat about this before we move on to Keima. Why do you feel that doing that MBA was so important to you?
Iris Barcia: Well, one thing that happened, I did have kind of an in between experience between my time in Telefonica and coming to the UK. And I did work for a very dynamic product company, consumer electronics company, and I had a wonderful boss there. And we were the product group, so him and me. What I was doing there was totally new to me. I was sitting in between marketing and the commercial side, and then from that position, I got a new perspective into products. Because it was consumer electronics, we were defining the specs for TVs, MP3 at the time ... Nobody thinks about an MP3 now ... DVD players ... And I thought it was, don't know, something new that I didn't think about before, like that position ... I had been doing something very technical at Telefonica, and that was something so ... bringing new skills into my set. And I thought I'd really like the product side.
I liked the telecoms, and I loved the antennas and so on. How can I put it together? If I could work in product and in telecoms, and that was what took me the path of the MBA, not because of the MBA as such, because actually, I did took some specialisation subjects into product, and product development, and absolutely loved it. And I also, before doing the MBA, I did get the chance to try some product specification things for the company, so we came up with way of grading new features and things, and the MBA just gave me stronger basis on how to analyse the market, how to understand obviously the economic implications of some of the decisions, how to position ... If you are evaluating products, how to position them, how to communicate as well about that. And that was the reason why I decided to break my working path, and study ... And I wanted I suppose to give me some foundations that I haven't acquired before.
Alan Cowley: Learning a broader sense of the business, almost. Okay, so was it during the MBA that you first got introduced to start-ups and the start-up ecosystem?
Iris Barcia: No, not really. I suppose I've been scaling down the size of the companies I was working for. I started Telefónica, and then went to a smaller place, and then after the MBA I think it was when I really got into, like, tiny. Really tiny.
Alan Cowley: So, you started Keima after the MBA?
Iris Barcia: Yeah, the story of Keima I suppose, I shall explain a little bit. The company was founded in 2006, I joined the company in 2010. The company had gone through a period of growth and things were going really well, and then some things changed with some contracts, and basically they ended up scaling down big time. I think they were at the time 13, and they ended up being three. Their founders were four, and at the time I join, there were three, and actually one of the founders, he had been on sick leave for a long time and he was in the process of recovering, so he was quietly coming back into the active life. He had gone through a very serious illness. The day I started in the company, I went into this room which is quite small, and there are two people, but actually the feeling I got was the opposite. I felt I really wanted to be here, and I suppose what drove me that as well was that when I saw their job offer, the only thing that was missing was, "We want her to be called Iris Barcia", because it was exactly my profile.
They were working on network design, they had a tool, I had worked with tools before, but it gave me the opportunity then to be on the product side, so that the tool was the product. It was kind of this thing I had been looking for, this kind of combination between the product, and because they were small I did tell them, "Look, I've just finished my MBA, I do want to keep exploring the path of mixing technology and business," and they were fine about it. It was so small that, really, everything was open. I never had doubts about the start-up world. I suppose, I don't know, classifying them as a start-up probably isn't correct, because the company had been running for quite some time at the time. Yeah, but never had doubts about it.
Alan Cowley: Was this the first job that you'd had you really had to do multiple different things at once? Obviously you've scaled down from Telefónica, where you had your set job, and now what was your role at this point when you started?
Iris Barcia: My role at the time, I think I shall break it in two. I started very technical, so my experience in Telefónica and designing networks, I think it was very useful for them, there was this US project at the beginning, I didn't do that much in the business or wear that many hats. Then as things were evolving, some things were changing internally in the company, and I started expanding a little bit more in kind of business development I suppose I could call it. Then it was technical plus sales, and then at the same time looking at okay, what we could add to the product that brings more interest and help our customers more, because at the time the Sales Director had already come back full time and we were travelling loads to the US, so we were spending two weeks in the US and two weeks in the UK. Obviously, with that very close contact to the customer, that was bringing to us this beautiful information about how the product could evolve, and that made my role change again. But those transitions were really soft. It's something that just happens naturally.
We were a team, we were all talking, we were in Starbucks discussing with a coffee around the time of the data tsunami, like all these talks about data tsunami, all these images of the wave, this Japanese wave and so on. Everybody talking about that. Then I remember with Simon Chapman, who's now my business partner, we were thinking, "Well, we do this, we have this product, what is that we need to bring it to the future? What are the things that will be needed?" I suppose that's the bit that links with new product development. I was telling him, "Well, based on my experience as an engineer," and the times that I remembered working in Telefónica, and we were thinking obviously we will sell these to operators, and what will the engineers at those mobile operators need from a tool?
I was telling him, "Well, it would be wonderful if we had these features, it will be great, it will be kind of the dream if we could just input or define what we want to do, which is the area that we want to design." Not worrying about importing data, and all the things that I knew that were massive hassles, that were just a waste of time, you were not adding anything to the engineering. Then also thinking about the market was going to evolve. At the time, nobody was talking about the small cells, now the concept is very well understood, but at the time we thought, okay, no, we will need more detail, but really the small cell wasn't like this marketing thing that it became later. Simon has loads of experience, and then he said, "Well, we go for identification," and he has this incredible background in astrophysics and computing, and we just put things together.
It was working so well, to be honest. We were putting things together from different angles, and they were working and fitting. It was beautiful to see that growing, and how we were bringing into the tool. I suppose, yeah, my role was just transitioning, and just acquiring maybe new, not responsibilities even, it was just happening.
Alan Cowley: It's so different from corporate life where you would have had to sit in an office and have an interview basically about changing your job role, while this was sat in Starbucks and you just both agreed where the business should go.
Iris Barcia: Yeah, when I look back at those times, it always makes me smile because I realise now where we are and what we have, and it all started there. These conversations, "We will be visiting clients and going back to the tool," and just exhausted, all this travelling, all these things going on, and we will talk for hours. Like, "Okay, what happened today? I think this went well, this didn't work." Then we will talk about the problems that people were finding, and we will try to sync up with the team in Cardiff and bring all that together. At the time, there were some things that also started breaking internally, and then obviously that triggered, it has other consequences in where I ended up, where I am today. But I think that in terms of where I started and how that transition has been really, I mean I suppose I stepped into this without thinking about it.
Alan Cowley: Well, the listeners have heard here first that the change in direction for Keima happened in a Starbucks. So, there was a change in Keima at this time, and it changed both the direction of the company also structurally. What was the view of the company then? Did you then take the role of Chief Operating Officer?
Iris Barcia: I don't think so.
Alan Cowley: Still new product development?
Iris Barcia: I think it was Senior Product Development, yeah. We were wearing so many so many hats in a day, that we had to define roles so it will be understood by the people that we met.
Alan Cowley: And when you hire people I guess as well.
Iris Barcia: Yeah, but it didn't make any sense internally really. If I am totally honest, there is this blurred line, you need something to put on your business card, and you're introducing yourself to somebody and you have to explain what you do, and probably at the time depending on the person I was meeting, I will use one or the other.
Alan Cowley: Just have a selection of ten business cards.
Iris Barcia: Still today, it’s kind of sometimes doesn't make sense. I mean, obviously we are finding since the cafe we've grown and so on. We've tried define it a little bit more, but still is really blurred.
Alan Cowley: What does Keima look like today as a business? What do you do?
Iris Barcia: We are a software company at the core, but we specialise in network planning. For the whole of our history really, the problem that we are trying to solve is basically how to build the best network, providing the best return on investment. That's kind of a very simple way of looking at it, it's a deployable business case, we are trying to create that with our tool. Today, I think compared to when I started, the industry has changed so much, and even from the consumer perspective, the user perspective it has changed so much. Before, I used to think that our clients will mainly be mobile operators and big services companies, vendors like Ericsson, the usually suspects. The reality is, with the market evolution, I'm finding a totally new world. Companies that I never thought will need to design networks or look at network planning, they are utilising our software. For example, cable companies, mutual house companies, obviously services, but different level of services companies.
I think has gone broader and moved away from just some big key players and expanding into smaller groups of new companies. Satellite companies, IOT companies. It's just right now, everything is evolving and changing so much. It's like it is bubbling, and it was a little bit like that with 4G. With 4G, we've got the chance for our big moment and when we were at this kind of Starbucks moment, we did take the risk. We knew what other companies like ours were doing, and we thought, "Well, they can't keep doing that. We think the solution will be in a different approach," and because we were independent, because we were small and nobody cared, basically, we could take the risk. That's what we did, and that took us into
I think a slightly different path to the traditional companies in our space, and that has shaped what we are today, so... Well, on the things that we were thinking, it's going to be very complex, but engineering teams within the companies, they want to grow or maybe they get smaller.
Alan Cowley: Yeah.
Iris Barcia: We need to create something that allows us to, with a very small team, do loads, and that approach to know, it's also applied to us. We are very small, but we can do amazing things. I mean, as we speak, we've got computers in the cloud running the whole of the US, so as we were flying, we've done this so many times. Before going into the plane, we will trigger some analysis. By the time we were landing, it's done, and then we can spend our time into looking at the real value added aspects of it, so the engineering aspects, and that approach, we've tried to apply it both to our product and to our company, and that definitely then I think explains how we are and who we are today.
Alan Cowley: Yeah.
Iris Barcia: I think it still applies.
Alan Cowley: What are the key challenges that you faced with your time at Keima?
Iris Barcia: Well, yeah. Definitely. When that transition happened, that would be the one. Super big challenge. That was a massive team effort like the ones that were left, we had to really go for it. One of the critical times, I remember I came back from holiday from Spain, and I remember going into the office, and Simon, Chris were there, and they said, "Well, two other founders have left. Now, what do we do?"
I didn't have any doubts at all. We have been going through a horrible time, absolutely horrible time whilst all that was going on, and I said, "Well, what do we do? We've got fantastic product. We've got this idea of the market. We've got now total freedom to do and to explore what we think is going to be a future solution for network planning. We can change the world."
That was basically what I felt. At that time, I thought, "Oh, with what we know, with what we have, we can change the way that networks are designed. We know people haven't realised yet the changes they will need, what is going to happen, and we know it. We know we have the capability of making it, creating it, and so no doubts at all." That was so beautiful moment, and then reality came and just hit me hard like... So great moment of, "Yes, we can do it. No doubts at all," and then...
Alan Cowley: How do we do...
Iris Barcia: Paperwork, and so for example, things at the time. We then changed the name of the company, and obviously, we were to keep everything going. We had some projects, but we were tiny and with all that going on, that was very hard work, and it was hard sometimes to keep up and not to be drawn into, "This is too difficult," and I think that's where the team came in if it was and because we had each other to be supportive. When one was down, then the other will take over, but that was the critical time. Yeah. Obviously, working without being paid and without knowing you will never paid because we did have some employees, so we were kind of three core, but then we have two part-time as well working with us.
To me that I had never thought about having a company in a sense, that was such a massive responsibility. I always saw myself on the employee side, never on the other side and suddenly was like, "Oh, what do I have to do now? I mean, I have to take care of... Now, I have this responsibility that I never thought I will have." It was like, "Okay, the employer will provide." No, it was... Now, "Ooh, who is the employer?"
Alan Cowley: You.
Iris Barcia: Yeah, that was a critical time.
Alan Cowley: Eye-opening?
Iris Barcia: Yes. Yeah, and the same way that I think up to that time it was a very soft transition, and I didn't realise what I was going into. That was a little bit like that as well, but I didn't realise what I was going into. But then, obviously, I was aware that I had other duties. Suddenly, my responsibilities were as well not only on the product. It wasn't only my... kind of a specific because it wasn't that specific, but a kind of specific day-to-day job. It was broader.
Alan Cowley: Yeah.
Iris Barcia: It became broader. It became like I have to think about my business partner. I have to think about my colleagues in a different way because I now have a responsibility towards them, and yeah, that had just happened. I didn't look for it in a sense, but it was just like, "No, it's just the logical thing to do."
Alan Cowley: Yeah.
Iris Barcia: Of course, I didn't think about the other side, and that was, yeah, eye-opener. Definitely.
Alan Cowley: Yeah. Your career path scaled down in size from Telefonica to Keima.
Iris Barcia: Yeah.
Alan Cowley: What's coming up for Keima? What scale and backup look like?
Iris Barcia: Well, i think we have an amazing product, but obviously, I realised some of the challenges that we've got over this year. We've got some of them like sometimes, as I said, we tried to do things in a very clever way, but not everybody understands that, and we find ourselves in situations where even if our product was the best technical solution, we weren't chosen.
Alan Cowley: Yeah.
Iris Barcia: We find ourselves sometimes in situations that were... even if we know we have the right solution, so somebody is asking the questions, and we know we can answer them. They don't seem to be attracted by maybe our size or... so things like that. Sometimes we found that. We used to find it a lot more before. Now, I think we become known, so like for example, we don't really do marketing and most of the clients we've got is because of word of mouth. Actually, they'd call us. They said, "Okay. I've got this thing that I want to do. Can you do it?" "Yes, of course. We can do it." It has been like that for a long time, but I think we've got so much potential. Now, as I said before, this is such a... Everything is happening moment that I would like to see that kind of scale up and curve.
Alan Cowley: Obviously, the future, at least the next 5 or 10 years, or however long it is, is Keima, and it sounds like you're not just passionate, but also excited to see where this journey goes, but does the future look like an exit for the company, or do you want to just keep on growing it?
Iris Barcia: Well, we've always wanted to keep on growing, so we've been approached by companies interested in suppose investing or kind of working with us in a more engagement way, and I think for Simon, for example, that's very important. It's about like the fit of those companies and people interested in investing in us, and understanding where we want to go and what do we want to do because... I mean, yeah, so many things are happening now that... We've got like these brilliant ideas, so we haven't finished with the product.
Alan Cowley: Yeah.
Iris Barcia: We see that there is still like many things that we can expand and still create. Yeah. In the past, sometimes, for example, there were some times that even if maybe the similarities or the correlation in the companies were bright when it wasn't, and that's also important obviously like the value.
Alan Cowley: Yeah.
Iris Barcia: Obviously, being the company that we are like self-funded and going through the history we've gone, we want somebody that understands the real value we've got, and we found ourselves in situations where people will approach us and talk about values that we don't think are the real ones for our company. In other situations though, I mean, we found that we were talking about very interesting options, but... Well, we'll see in the future. Yeah.
Alan Cowley: See in the future. What about yourself though? If you did, for instance, hypothetically exit in 5, 10 years' time and the company went somewhere else, what would you see yourself doing do you think? Maybe setting up your own company? Maybe investing?
Iris Barcia: Well, now that I have tested it... I don't know. If you asked me before, I will say, "Yeah. No. I just want to keep the technology path." Now that I have experienced how dynamic, how creative it could be to work with people building something together, I think... Then, I will probably want to keep that, but I'm not sure. I don't know. I am so focused I think on where we are.
Alan Cowley: Where the business...
Iris Barcia: Our present moment and where I want to see us going that, say, I haven't thought about. I don't know. I imagine myself like an old retired lady painting or something, but I don't know if that's a reality. Yeah. It might not be. I love technology, and I love that kind of... like the product and this creativity thing that is associated to how we can change the world. The impact. I think it's a little bit about the impact. I think I would like to work on something that really changes things.
Alan Cowley: Yeah.
Iris Barcia: I don't know what, I don't know when, but I really think I will try to do that.
Alan Cowley: Yeah. Well, your focus is obviously on Keima for the time being, and the passion is evident on where Keima is going and how much you believe in it. We will all be listening and looking out for Keima and see where you go. It's been absolutely fascinating to have a chat with you, and thank you very much.
Iris Barcia: Thank you.
Peter Cowley: Thanks for listening to another Invested Investor Podcast. You can subscribe to all future podcasts via our website investedinvestor.com or via a number of podcast platforms online. Remember, you can order our book online, and be sure to follow us on Twitter, LinkedIn, and Facebook to get the most up-to-date, interesting, and insightful content from the Invested Investor.
